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Robert Arvanitis's avatar

The issue here is not to manipulate political positions to conform with preferred ideology.

The issue is to align politics with facts and reason.

We make arbitrary distinctions in sports. For example, should there be separate competitions for men and women?

If so, why?

Well, we have weight classes in boxing, presumably to get more close competitions.

If we likewise separate men and women to reduce disparities, then definitions of “man” and “women” must align with capabilities.

Otherwise the exercise is not merely futile, but hypocritical.

For equal weight, a genetic male will beat a genetic female.

And we forbid doping, because for equal weight, a fighter with higher testosterone will beat an undoped fighter.

The issue of self-identification for sex is the same as doping. If we ban one, we must ban the other.

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

Please provide evidence for this claim:

"because for equal weight, a fighter with higher testosterone will beat an undoped fighter."

All humans have naturally different levels of testosterone, that in and of itself doesn't determine how well someone will box. It doesn't even necessarily determine muscle density and strength. Strength and muscle density doesn't even necessarily determine success in boxing. Sean O'Malley is very undersized in terms of his muscle mass and excels because of his incredible technique.

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

The woman in question, Imane Khelif did not dope and she is not trans. What is your disagreement, Robert?

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Robert Arvanitis's avatar

Vincent,

No opinions expressed, yet!

Today I gave a consistent framework for horizontal and vertical equity.

That's how we should deal with all sorts of issues: sex, taxation, military draft, etc.

For sports specifically, I ask why weight classes. If we agree reasons for that, then we can be consistent on other distinctions like age and sex. Laying the groundwork for further discussion.

So what distinctions should we make? For what purposes?

Whatever we agree, there will always be differences in abilities. Look at how Billy Conn gave Joe Louis more than he could handle, though far smaller.

PS: You asked about doping: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36990315/

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